|
Post by The Dependable Deliverer on May 26, 2006 10:54:52 GMT -5
Did you like her?
I didn't like the way she dismissed him near the end of the film when the Earl visited the play house. She didn't let him see his daughter, i didn't think that was very fair. He helped create her.
If i were Lizzie Barry, i wouldn't have abandoned him, i would've helped him.
|
|
|
Post by The Poetic Protégée on May 26, 2006 15:59:03 GMT -5
I thought Lizzie Barry was a phenomenal woman. She was a strong woman in a man's world and she did what she needed to do to get somewhere in life. She wanted to be an actress so she accepted the Earl's tuition and though she knew what he was like she resisted him for quite a while. Maybe she was not the most compassionate woman but the Earl did not really deserve compassion (and that pains me to write!). She was one of the only people who ever stood her ground with the Earl, you've got to respect her for that .
|
|
|
Post by The Eternal Optimist on May 26, 2006 21:36:34 GMT -5
Yes, because of what Jay said. Also because she was probably the only woman who could have if she wanted to change him. Which as it got to the end you could see she had an effect on him. I would have to disagree with Jay the Earl although not the kind of preson I would normally like I think it's people like that who need it the most. Cause as much as they think their in control and nothing can hurt them they are really the most sacered of their own demons.
|
|
|
Post by The Dependable Deliverer on May 27, 2006 5:28:47 GMT -5
Personally i prefered Elizabeth Malet, she stuck by him through thick and thin and was by his side on his deathbed. She was the only one who helped him through his illness.
|
|
|
Post by The Poetic Protégée on May 27, 2006 8:40:37 GMT -5
Oh yes, Elizabeth Malet is definitely the more admirable woman in that sense. Her loyalty and devotion were too touching for words. It made all the breaches of trust between them so much worse when you knew that no matter what the Earl did she would never turn her back on him.
Star, you make a good point. I should have phrased it differently. You're right, of course, but I think that the Earl exploited his own talents to such a degree that the only thing that could steer him back onto the right course was someone standing up to him and saying no.
|
|
|
Post by The Eternal Optimist on May 27, 2006 11:16:02 GMT -5
Star, you make a good point. I should have phrased it differently. You're right, of course, but I think that the Earl exploited his own talents to such a degree that the only thing that could steer him back onto the right course was someone standing up to him and saying no. Yeah I agree, You gotta be tough sometimes. A little tough love would do him good and maybe when he would have stopped being such "drunken pig"
|
|
|
Post by The Dependable Deliverer on May 27, 2006 16:08:15 GMT -5
I don't dislike Elizabeth Barry, i just thought she was a little dismissive... although i don't blame her for walking away... he should've seen his daughter
|
|
|
Post by The Poetic Protégée on May 27, 2006 16:56:36 GMT -5
Maybe Elizabeth Barry wanted to make sure her daughter remained her daughter. If there was a chance that he would try and take her daughter away, I don't think anyone could blame her for being protective. I agree though, Becky. It would have been kinder to let him see his daughter, even if it was only once.
|
|
|
Post by The Protective Horserider on May 30, 2006 15:56:46 GMT -5
Yes, I do like her in a way.. She was a strong woman that stood her ground. It really is too bad that she didn't let him see his daughter just for once, it is somehow understandable though, seen to what they've been through together.
I do like Elizabeth Malet much better however. She was so great in the last scenes. The way she stood him by despite everything that happened.. I don't think I could have done that, amazing!
|
|
|
Post by The Dependable Deliverer on May 31, 2006 10:10:54 GMT -5
I admire Elizabeth Malet for standing by him... she was a phenomonal woman. The Earl didn't really deserve help from her after the way he treated her
|
|
|
Post by The Poetic Protégée on May 31, 2006 10:29:10 GMT -5
Mmmm, agreed. Elizabeth Malet was something else.
|
|
|
Post by The Protective Horserider on May 31, 2006 13:19:26 GMT -5
Exactly, I think I couldn't have 'forgiven' him. I just couldn't have done it. Any woman who can do such a thing deserves a lot of respect.
|
|
|
Post by clion on Jul 2, 2007 9:23:55 GMT -5
Hmmmmmm, I seem to have a different view concerning their relationship. I had the feeling she trusted John because she felt she could profit from him, but John satisfied his own ego and ... well ... his loins later on when they were together. Now don't get me wrong, I do feel the Earl loved her and that she did too to some extend, but ...
Notice the love scene between them; she hides her face from him and that to em was a sign of embarassement, in the sense that she was using him. Maybe I've seen the movie too many times or over-analyse it, but at the end I do think Lizzy dismissed the Earl to protect her daughter but also herself. I think she loved him, but was selfish enough not to be willing to see him suffering and die. She wanted to save herself the pain and preferred pushing him away.
I hope that made sense and I didn't offend anyone's opinions.
|
|
|
Post by The Poetic Protégée on Jul 2, 2007 11:14:10 GMT -5
Not at all, clion. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, if we all shared the same opinions there'd be nothing to talk about! Lizzy's feeling are certainly very much held back. I think she was aware of what an amazing opportunity the Earl was granting her and she was prepared to do almost anything to ensure she became the actress he believed she could be. Perhaps she loved him, perhaps she didn't. In some ways, she seems a woman out of her time, unwilling to be held back. I think she would have left the Earl as soon as she became influential enough to make it on her own even if he had not become ill. That was what she wanted above all things, to be recognised as a woman with talent. She would not have wanted to be in his shadow. Now you mention it I remember noticing that myself. I need to watch this film again!
|
|
|
Post by clion on Jul 3, 2007 3:28:37 GMT -5
I think she would have left the Earl as soon as she became influential enough to make it on her own even if he had not become ill. That was what she wanted above all things, to be recognised as a woman with talent. She would not have wanted to be in his shadow. That's a good way of putting it; I couldn't agree more! Lizzy Barry was a strong woman who knew what she wanted and went after it, so rare in her time. On the other hand, Elizabeth Malet was a strong woman too, sticking by his side even though he seemed to do everything he could to push her away. So, in a sense, Lizzy has used him but I can't help feeling that he used her too. At the end I do believe they loved each other, but their own purposes got in the way. Okay, now I want to watch that movie again! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gene's glasses and toothpick. Kisses to you!
|
|